As a consequence of telling a Dungeon Master that I was working on making a toy, while sitting at the computer, I wound up leading an interesting discussion about toys and toy making. I logged the conversation to a file, and then edited it down to make it more readable.

     On the talker, of course, the discussion went in short sentences, not long paragraphs. But that makes intolerable reading. I've trimmed out most of the asides, smiles and snickers, though a few remain. I've modified the order, so that it seems as if we had sensible, cohesive topics about one thing, and then went on to another topic. The reality was a mishmash of several topics fading in and out. Sometimes I've combined relevant information from several people into a statement by one person. Lots of people contributed, though their contributions may be hidden in this summary.

TomDLux says: I guess the first thing I wanted to say about toys is that people talk and think in terms of 'torture'. But it doesn't always have to be painful. You could 'torture' someone with a piece of soft cloth ...a sheepskin glove with the wool left on, can be tantalizing. Some people like pain, some just like being helpless, or submitting, obeying and people differ from each other, and vary from day to day. So if you are playing real life, you need to pay attention to how the person is reacting.

If you are doing things across the net, you can't see that ... and you don't know how hard the person is doing things .. so you need to be careful.
But that said, there are all kinds of things we can do to have fun. Fetish gear and pervertable non-fetish gear
Seems like everyone wants a riding crop. Don't go to a fetish store to get one. They'll charge you $20-35. Go to a tack shop, where you
get riding supplies. What a radical concept, get a riding crop from a riding store ... much cheaper.

Rune says: They had better ones than I saw at the fetish shop too

TomDLux says:If you want a collar, check out a good pet supply shop before you go to a fetish shop. I saw a very nice, three inch wide dog
collar with humungous studs on it, for about $30. Of course, you only get one d-ring to snap things to.

Silkn says: Many farm supply stores carry a variety of collars, and whips... as well as a variety of chains, ropes...

TomDLux says: Kitchen stores have wooden spoons, cutting boards .. make great paddles. Though my best "killer" paddle is from the surplus store .. it's a 36" child size canoe paddle. I paid $8 for it, I can hold it by the end and swing the whole length. I haven't ever tried it full force ... but I am told gentle works pretty well.

What about those heavy rubber tiedowns with the metal hooks, which you use for strapping things to a pickup truck or onto a motorcycle A friend
uses two or three, folded double. Without the metal hooks, of course.

While we're on the topic of getting things cheaper than at fetish shops nipple clamps .. the japanese clover clamps .. much cheaper at the sewing
supply shop .

They have a little clamp which attaches to the table and holds the clover clamp, used for embroidery or something. Of course, they only
sell half a pair, so you wind up with two table clamps, left over. You need to pick up a bit of chain, somewhere, to join them.

TomDLux says: There are other things you can 'pervert'. Brushes of all sorts, I have a little scrub brush .. could be a nail brush, might be for floors. It is stiff, with slightly scratchy bristles. Price tag is still on it .. $149 Canadian == U$1 .. From the farm supply shop.

Silkn claps softly : a farm supply fan :)

TomDLux says: Plastic curry brush, from the pet supply shop, cost a couple of dollars, "Goody" brand, comes in designer colours, mine
is blue. It has a little clip you slide between your fingers to hold it, has all these plastic fingers sticking out the other end, for doing things with your dog's coat. Never mind perversion, I've started using on my head, scalp massage.

It feels wonderful. There is also another variety, rectangular in shape, with little indentations for your fingers on the side, big rubbery
fingers on one of the flat surfaces, grerat for massage .. again, it comes in lots of flourescent colours from your pet supply store.

And if you want a cheap blindfold, try the drugstore .. sleepmasks.

Lincoln says: I have both a red satin and a blue satin sleepmask, for special occasions.

TomDlux says: Want a ball gag? get a pratice gold ball .. hard plastic, hollow, with holes in it; put a rope or thong through the holes You can
still breasth with it in place. I wound up with a package of six .. anyone want five practice golfballs?

And since bdsm involves sex, at least for some people it does, disposable plastic gloves, large, fits either hand. A package of 24 for 70 cents,
US, at the dollar store.

Making simple toys, tool dip
TomDLux says: But now for the creative part, where you get to show off in front of people .. making stuff. A friend took a few bungee cords, removed the outer layer and found a whole bunch of tiny rubber strands inside ... makes a great tit whip or cock & ball whip.

I liked the idea, so I stopped by my favourite place, the farm supply store, and bought a bungee cord. Instead of little spaghetties, I found a dozen fetuccini; wide strips, maybe half inch wide ... Different bungee cords have different insides .. so you can wind up with several patterns.

At the kitchen store, I bought some wooden skewers intended forbarbequeing. Little strips of bamboo, a foot long, pointed at one end. Take a third or half the package, wrap a string around one end a few times. I got fancy, and dipped it in red tool dip. You can use it as a stick, tap the skin with it, or you can use the pointy ends, drag that across skin.

Snake asks: What is tool dip?

TomDLux says: Tool dip is liquid rubber

Knot says: Plastisol

Rune says: it's stuff you dip your metal tools in if you are working with electric stuff so you have plastic to break any charges

TomDLux says: You dip the ends of metal tools into this, and it forms a handle. You can use it to colour code stuff, or to whip the ends of ropes. I use it to make handles for floggers and toys.

One thing I did was to dip ordinary, thin kitchen string in the tool dip. I dipped the whole length of the string, six foot pieces. Then folded it into shorter pieces once it's dry, bundled it together with a handle at one end, about a dozen strips, a foot long.

It makes a nice stingy toy

Medtech says: Might I suggest somthing with rope and dip: take a nylon string about clothes line size; tie knots in it about 1 inch apart then coat  the knots with dip, just the knots.

Silkn thinks: anal beads!

TomDLux says: I also dipped parachute cord, that's a thin, loose, braided rope, scraped off the excess .. it became very stiff, like a switch or birch. I stuck six lengths together, very stingy, on a bigger scale than the tiny strings.

Knot asks: Doesn't that stuff harden pretty hard Tom?

TomDLux says: Yes, quite hard. The dipped rope has some flexibility, but not much.

Lincoln asks: TomD, how big was the container of Plastidip? I have one about the -- half the -- size of a tennis-ball can.

TomDLux says: A pint? like a small container of paint.

Faramir says: I might also suggest liquid latex...might be more flexible...

Canes
TomDlux asks: Anyone like canes?

Morn does :)!!!!  Morn says: miniblind rods work pretty well

TomDLux says: I made one using the fibreglas rods you join together to assemble a dome tent. The fibreglas rods are too thick, not flexible
enough .. too much of a whack. But I think a fishing rod would be great ..

Silkn would like to suggest being careful with fiberglass... it will shatter, or crack causing terrible cuts and splinters...

Finesse thinks fishing rods would really hurt

Lincoln says: I have a nice compromise to that. Try the last segment of an old deep-sea -- or surf -- fishing rod. The plexi does bend
a lot.

lashes says: a friend of mine uses blank fishing rods as canes, dipped in tool handle stuff.

Lincoln says: I dipped tiny plastic rods, about 1/16 " last year, and used the dip as a bundler to make an instant handle. It all looked great, but the rods broke, shattering in use. :(

Pine says: For those without a partner, I have a sugguestion :) Go to the supermarket and buy leather boot laces :) The pack quite a sting and make a delightfull "swiish" as they go over your shoulder :)

TomDLux says: I have four leather thongs, folded double, attached to a key ring. Makes a nice fetish decoration to wear at my waist, and a convenient portable toy.

Silkn says: I bought a spool of that kind of leather and braided 4 foot lengths for a handle about 8", leaving the rest loose... a flogger... quite effective, cost about $10

Making a soft rope flogger, hard rubber flogger, simple short whip TomDLux says: A rope flogger can be nice .. softest thing around. It needs to be nylon, other plastics are nasty. Unwind the wope into strands. Unwind the strands into yarns. unwind the yarns into threads. Now there are 140000 loose threads instead of 8 or ten ropes. Makes a soft thud .. learned that from one of the local munch group.

lashes swoons, and thinks of bunny fur

Knot shivers

Lincoln has the luxury of living in NYC, where the garment district has tassel shops. He's got a fine nylon tassel of 100s of individual ends that swish, and a lame' stinger.

TomDLux says: A rubber flogger. A bicycle inner tube, cut into lengths, about two feet long. Split the tubes. Open into not-very-flat panels, and cut into strips joined at one end. Glue the joined end onto a handle with rubber cement. Makes a healthy whack.

TomDLux says: and my short whip, made from leather thongs, braided together. If you made a bracelet from bits of plastic when you were eight,
you know the basic knot ... Look in knot books for "wall knots". You can either reverse direction at each stage, or keep goin in one direction, I like that, gives a spiral effect. The whip starts with eight thongs, every 6 rows I take one out of the set, forcing it into the middle core. Eventually,
the thongs run out, I push them into the middle to disappear and continue with the former core.

Bondage safety
TomDLux asks: Do people know about panic snaps?

lashes says: oh, I do. horses

TomDlux says: They're used for horses .. $2 or $3 at farm supply shop. They provide two attachment loops But if the horse - or the bound slave - panics, you pull on the barrel in the middle, and one of those rings pops open and the captive is free.

Good in case of an emergency. If someone passes out or has a fit, epilectic or otherwise, you don't want to spend time releasing them. And with the panic snaps you can support their weight while releasing them. In a group situation you can always get someone to hold the person while you release ordinary snaps, but it's harder when you're alone.

TomDLux says: One more thing from the farm supply shop. That rubbery gauze they have in various colour for wrapping around horse's hoofs.

lashes says: vetwrap. sticks to itself.

TomDLux says: I use it to wrap around things, creating the handle. Great stuff.

lashes says: or to decorate one bound in plastic wrap. I also like polo wraps from the farm store. A set of 4, matching colors, soft, stretchty but not too... Good for blindfolding, impromptu binding to a chair. very safe, very effective.

Silkn made a spreader bar from a tension rod with the spring removed... drilled a series of holes in it and insert a bolt to make it adjustable.... bolt chains on each end for cuffs... whole thing around $20

Lincoln says: Silkn, I found spreader bars at Purple Passion, a fetish store, as you described, also about $20.

Silkn asks: lincoln with cuffs attached? the ones i looked at were $50 or more...

Morn says: miniblind rods work well also :)

TomDLux says: My favourite idea from Morn's web page .. licorice strings .. first you whip her, then you eat the evidence

Chemical torture
TomDLux asks: Any ideas for dildoes, butt plugs? Carve a piece of ginger into a butt plug .. it'll be a memorable experience.

Silkn loves the shower massager... passionately... vibrator not dildo...

lashes asks: hey, Medtech, what about ginger and anal tissue?

TomDLux says: Also toothpaste on the clit

Medtech says: hmmmm I not quite sure on that one I could look it up

Morn says: we tried that....didn'treally do anything for me

Pine didn't get results with toothpaste either

Morn says: bengay does pretty well though

TomDLux says: I know some people who have had very good results with toothpaste

Silkn whispers: red hots (candies) in the vagina... and on the clit...

Pine exclaims: now cinnamon oil..... that's another story!!!

greeneyes says: bengay burns

TomDLux says: Try the menthol toothpaste.

Catalina says: try that concentrated breath freshner in the tiny bottles

Lincoln says: Or a drop of peppermint oil pushed gently, barely inside the anus when the sub's hands are kept out of the way.

Teal says: Bengay - IcyHot whats the difference *she mumbles*

greeneyes says: pop rocks is the bomb

Morn had an interesting experience with cin oil

Pine had no luck with ben gay either.

Snake asks: Ever hear of Ice Drops? Concentrated spearmint, one drop usually will do in your toiunge, now that would be fun

TomDLux says: Seems like either everyone has tried this, or there are a whole lot of urban legends going around ...

Teal nearly lost her mind with IcyHot

Silkn smiles remembering some ice and that chocolate ice cream shell stuff... the area has to be cold or the chocolate won't harden... and the choc must harden :)

Teal asks: ice?

Knot asks: horse liniment?

lashes says: its made for horse skin, which is sensitive, but not like human places

Knot lost some serious skin to that stuff ;(

Pine asks: my sweat smelled like cinnamon for 3 DAYS :( So, I didn't use it again... it that unusual? and no, I didn't use gobs :)... only 4-5 drops

Morn didn't have that happen after she used that

Silkn says: vicks vaporub

Knot smiles..his favorite :)

TomDLux says: On the other hand,let me tell you about my jalapeno pepper experience

Teal says: I dont like the stuff . . .it burns

TomDLux says: I was making mexican food, and had to go for a pee after chopping a bunch of jalapenos.

Faramir accidentlyally got some icy hot on his scrotum once, and boy did it hurt!!

Morn says: cin oil can burn a god bit

TomDLux says: Touched the head of my cock ... burned for ages... After that, I oiled my hands before chopping jlapenos, then washed my hands thoroughly afterwards.

Lincoln says: I rubbed my eye after shooting Mace from a can. I went crazy with pain. And rubbed them after feeling a dead jellyfish at the beach: less pain, but clouded, hazy vision as well.

Silkn smiles at tom, having done that intentionally to someone... but tabasco, not jalepeno

TomDLux says: ice cock .... have a cardboard tube, say from a roll of toilet paper,standing up, with a condom hanging down inside .. the open end of the condom wrapped around the top of the tube. Put some water into it, put in the freezer.

When you take it out of the freezer, make sure you run some water over it or do something to take the edge off, slightly, you don't want freezing
cold to damage the skin..

Silkn once used a popsicle in a moment of desperation... on someone else!!

Lincoln asks: Wouldn't a Freez-R-Pop be just as good? Faster, and longer. And smooth on top, unlike the heat-sealed variety.

Favourite stores, assorted toys
TomDLux says: I have a very thick leather belt I got from the Salvation Army store. I remember getting the strap in the principle's office, about 34 years ago. This feels very much like that. I think it cost me $3

Lincoln asks: Anyone else here in or near NYC? I went to Chinatown this evening and got a wide-handled bamboo back scratcher (paddle), a plexi mirror (paddle), feather duster (tickler)...

Silkn exclaims: mmmm feather dusters!

Morn exclaims: fuzzy dusters!!!!!

Teal blushes, "oh . ..feathers?"

lashes exclaims: bunny furs!

Medtech says: I like climbing stores you can get wide webbing, buckles, velcro all kinds of things

Silkn says: i like those big ostrich feathers too

Lincoln says: And recently at a Fashion Center store on W 38th Street, they had a sale of silky rope, scarlet colored. 10 yards for $5. Amazing. I got 20 yards.


Pinwheel, play piercing
TomDLux says: I haven't gotten around to visiting a medical supply shop, yet I want to get a Wertenberg Wheel.

Silkn asks: you mean a pin wheel?

Catalina says: go back to the sewing shop

Morn says: thise are cool TomD

TomDLux says: What they use to test your reflexes .. the wartenbergs are much sharper than the sewing ones. little prickling sensations. Or so they tell me.

Silkn says: no blood, but definitely pricking... my limits.

TomDLux says: I'm also interested in play piercings, which they say hypodermic needles are great for ... but that's sometime in the future.

lashes says: you can get those at the farm store; sanitized, for your convenience

Knot asks: okay what is 'Play" piercing?

Silkn whinces, having reached her limit on the play piercing...

TomDLux says: I've seen huge ones at the farm store .. I'd like the very thin ones

lashes says: very thin, and short

lashes gives shots to critters

Silkn says: tiny ones... for small animals... or insulin needles

TomDLux says: Taking a fine needle, and sliding into the surface of the skin, Knot. Or just under the skin, and then back to the surface.

Silkn says: acupuncture

TomDLux says: The ones I've seen are for use on horses and cows. Maybe they keep the small ones behind the counter

Lincoln says: Remember folks, that the sub must be kept STILL during this play, or the needle can break off under the skin. NOT the nicest
scene.

Silkn says: on farm supplies... a drovers whip is about $3... its kind of a cross between a crop and a cane...

TomDLux says: I have a pair of tweezers i bought at an electronics / mechanics surplus store. The zigzag kin, normally closed, squeeze to open Makes an interesting nipple clamp, doesn't squeeze very hard .. $2

Lincoln says: TD, they also sell those at jewelry supply shops. they're called 'cross-lock tweezers.'

Mooncrow has piercednipples

Teal's hubby does too . .

Clamps & pierced nipples
Mooncrow asks: nipple clamps aren't a Good Idea on pierced nips are they? or can they be used safely?

Medtech says: take ring or what ever out of nipple first mooncrow

Mooncrow says: um, no. it was too much trouble getting them IN there

TomDLux says: My impression is you can use nipple clamps on pierced nipples, just not on top of the piercing, is my impression. But piercings should be totally healed, can take six months or even longer

Teal says: my experience is that NO . .you do not use them in conjunction

Mooncrow says: thats what i heard, weight the rings and otherwise play with them

TomDLux says: Oh yeah, this store has dental picks, too ..... fun

Knot asks: dental picks??

Silkn gets some really scarey mental images

Pine thinks of the Marathon Man *gulp*

Catalina says: dental picks, the things they check your gums with

TomDLux says: No, Pine, not drills, just picks, pointy probes for proding and scraping teeth..

Silkn asks: i know what they are... but a sex toy???

Pine exhales... whew

Knot trembles and hides

TomDLux says: Not a sex toy .. don't insert anywhere

Cludge gaaaas at tooth picks from dentall.. nooo way

TomDLux says: But use them for skin sensitisation .. sensation control .. tease a person's skin with the pointy parts..

Mooncrow says: you can tease with a water pic too, and it's not as dangerous

Silkn nods at mooncrow... mini shower massager concept :)

You ask: Are we back to the shower massage dildoes?

Mooncrow exclaims: like a shower massage but more portable, AND more flexible!